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. >> union busting is disgusting! (laughter). >> jon: dude, you're from michigan, detroit, "8 mile." you've got to come up with better rhymes that busting-disgusting if you want to win the khraoe climactic rap. you have to put effort into it. (laughter) (cheers and applause) look, you have one job at one factory, when you seize every benefit you could, yo, our palms are sweaty, knees week, arms heavy, working in a factory all day building chevys, like the volt, you plug it in, and then you win -- ecologically, because if it was an actual race you would not -- actually. you've got to dues collect for the unions oro bahts are going to come and take away our jobs or to the chinese kids with the tiny hands to work and go -- ♪ this of ha tunety comes once in a lifetime note? note yo! (cheers and applause) you know what i realized? if i perform my hoff-torah a as bad as that i would owe my relatives money. for more we go to aasif mandvi in michigan and jason jones in indiana. there's not much kpet advantage in doing somet
. >> union busting is disgusting! (laughter). >> jon: dude, you're from michigan, detroit, "8 mile." you've got to come up with better rhymes that busting-disgusting if you want to win the khraoe climactic rap. you have to put effort into it. (laughter) (cheers and applause) look, you have one job at one factory, when you seize every benefit you could, yo, our palms are sweaty, knees week, arms heavy, working in a factory all day building chevys, like the volt, you plug it...
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union states to follow suit. the incoming house minority leader in michigan slammed the governor. >> now it is official ladies and gentlemen the governor of michigan is one greedy nerd and he is one week geek. we are not going to take it ian more. he wasn't satisfied with out sourcing thousands of jobs while on the board of gateway computer, he wants to turn michigan into the same low wage environment we see in china. >> this may not be the final word. we could see legal challenges. but right to work advocates chalked up probably their most significant victory by adding michigan to their list. back to you guys. >>> thank you, doug. these developments out of michigan the big talker this morning as you saw the protests turning violent. >> evidences assaulted. the violence at the rally compared to that of the tea party rally. sean hannity and ann coulter are talking it. >> eerie time you look at wisconsin, you look at michigan, you look at the occupy movement, you look at the g-8, g 20 summits all these things it's
union states to follow suit. the incoming house minority leader in michigan slammed the governor. >> now it is official ladies and gentlemen the governor of michigan is one greedy nerd and he is one week geek. we are not going to take it ian more. he wasn't satisfied with out sourcing thousands of jobs while on the board of gateway computer, he wants to turn michigan into the same low wage environment we see in china. >> this may not be the final word. we could see legal challenges....
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in fact, i don't view it as anti-union, but the unions to accept up and why they add values to workers when workers see the value, sign up, and if you don't, hopefully unions are more responsive. secondly, it brings jobs to michigan, more and better jobs to the state. david: well, when you have the president of the united states misdescribing it, according to you, that could possibly be one of the reasons why tempers have become inflamed. we have some people calling for blood or using that rhetoric, state representative doug reece talking about that in the legislature. play a sound from that. >> we're going to pass something that will undo a hundred years of labor relations, and there will be blood. david: "there will be blood ," and the mayor saying similar things. any kind of evidence of the coordinated everyday of violence in the state? >> those comments are not proposal. the union has done a lot of things in michigan. the labor movement, the 20s, 30s, and 40s, people flocked to the union because they did great things with wages, working benefits, all of those things, but today, sho
in fact, i don't view it as anti-union, but the unions to accept up and why they add values to workers when workers see the value, sign up, and if you don't, hopefully unions are more responsive. secondly, it brings jobs to michigan, more and better jobs to the state. david: well, when you have the president of the united states misdescribing it, according to you, that could possibly be one of the reasons why tempers have become inflamed. we have some people calling for blood or using that...
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don't count union don't count the union at here if anything. this is a state tom where michigan was invented and built on the efforts of unions this is the worst place the republicans could pick to make their fight not the best place they might have won today because mainstream media tried to create this hero out of this governor who is a total fraud who is nothing but a corporate toad for the car for the koch brothers for dick devotes for all of the regular suspects but now the fight is on and i can promise you they're not going to simply just take this you see fifty thousand people out there today that number i predict will grow to half a million before this is over with that would be extraordinary what are your thoughts on the one of the primary motivations for this being that mitt romney lost michigan by nine points he's like me i was born and raised in michigan so i believe he was as well he should have carried his home state you'd think. the unions helped turn out the democratic vote and the democratic party in the unions are very heavily
don't count union don't count the union at here if anything. this is a state tom where michigan was invented and built on the efforts of unions this is the worst place the republicans could pick to make their fight not the best place they might have won today because mainstream media tried to create this hero out of this governor who is a total fraud who is nothing but a corporate toad for the car for the koch brothers for dick devotes for all of the regular suspects but now the fight is on and...
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one of their union are not. josh and the last minute we have here do you expect that we will see a blow back to this like like there was in ohio or wisconsin. well it remains to be seen i mean certainly republicans are hoping this plays out like in the end where there were protests there was a decision not to have civil disobedience at the super bowl there was promise that there would be payback in this past november election and actually republicans games in illinois in the indiana legislature on the other hand in ohio the bill was reversed by referendum in even mitt romney was hurt so it remains to be seen the republicans apparently have tried to make it impossible to have a referendum pushing the issue to the two thousand and fourteen elections but certainly lots of governors in other states are going to be watching to see is this something they can get away with or not and the response is going to dictate that amazing send a straw to ryan johnson josh eidelson thank you all for being with us thank you for yo
one of their union are not. josh and the last minute we have here do you expect that we will see a blow back to this like like there was in ohio or wisconsin. well it remains to be seen i mean certainly republicans are hoping this plays out like in the end where there were protests there was a decision not to have civil disobedience at the super bowl there was promise that there would be payback in this past november election and actually republicans games in illinois in the indiana legislature...
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the unions helped turn out the democratic vote and the democratic party in the unions are very heavily connected as it were that this is not so much as an assault on the union as it is on the on the structural and financial base of the democratic party in that state well exactly they have done the numbers they know the history that what this does is it interferes with the ability of workers to politically organize their a bit their ability to politically organize becomes more state becomes more stretched democratic representation decreases in states that have the right to work kinds of laws die. it goes with b. in the red state the the ten states that i've talked about every one of them read every one of decreased democratic influence it also does something that you mention tom that i think is very important it closes down the civil courts they become stacked against the worker against workers' rights they've become stacked against the democratic party in many respects they differ they definitely become stacked against the right to become for unions to politically organize so all of th
the unions helped turn out the democratic vote and the democratic party in the unions are very heavily connected as it were that this is not so much as an assault on the union as it is on the on the structural and financial base of the democratic party in that state well exactly they have done the numbers they know the history that what this does is it interferes with the ability of workers to politically organize their a bit their ability to politically organize becomes more state becomes more...
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who's in a union shop should pay union dues. you might ask why is that a big deal. well if not everyone's required to pay you're going to have people who enjoy the advantages of a union better pay and better benefits environment but who don't contribute to the union's survival at all. this only works if we're all in it together. and more than that, this law is going to starve unions of their funding. from a political perspective in this democracy that is their power. there are actually two separate pieces of legislation. first applies to private sector employees like autoworkers. second one is public sector employees like teachers. though, of course, it exempts firefighters and police officers which is a classic move that republicans use off ton pit unions against each other. this is the same trick that they probably learned i'm sure everybody knows from their colleagues in wisconsin. but even as protests continue, these bills are heading to governor rick schneider's desk. what's he going to do? back in february, he criticized t
who's in a union shop should pay union dues. you might ask why is that a big deal. well if not everyone's required to pay you're going to have people who enjoy the advantages of a union better pay and better benefits environment but who don't contribute to the union's survival at all. this only works if we're all in it together. and more than that, this law is going to starve unions of their funding. from a political perspective in this democracy that is their power. there are actually two...
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i don't view it as anti-union. they are more proactive to presenting it to workers and say they should want to join it be part of it. this is first and foremost about worker choice. and second thing it is about economic development. we've watched what has gone on in indiana since they passed similar legislation and they have seen a significant increase in the numbers of companies talking about thousands of jobs to their state. first about workers choice but more about more and better jobs for our people. it's positive legislation for the state. >> it was not parts of your original aany da and it's being done in the lame duck. i suppose that's an issue that -- that the people are asking for, why wasn't it part of your original agenda and why did you wait for the lame duck? >> if you think about it, over 80% of workers don't have this issue. they aren't unionized so it applies in michigan to about 17.5% of our workforce. that's significant but most people don't have it as an issue. if you look where michigan was at,
i don't view it as anti-union. they are more proactive to presenting it to workers and say they should want to join it be part of it. this is first and foremost about worker choice. and second thing it is about economic development. we've watched what has gone on in indiana since they passed similar legislation and they have seen a significant increase in the numbers of companies talking about thousands of jobs to their state. first about workers choice but more about more and better jobs for...
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and how do the pro-union republicans pursue overturn this? and republicans acute in how they put together and appropriations bill and no automatic way to get a referendum to put it on the ballot. what they can do, however, is get 8%, signatures equivalent to 8% of the turnout in the 2010 election, the last gubernatorial election. if they collect 8% of the public like that they can put it on the ballot in 2014 so there would be that. the other issue is this. rick snyder is up for re-election in 2014 anyway. he already isn't that popular: michigan is generally a blue state to start with. so if you could take out rick snyder in 2014, again, the legislature as it will be comprised this coming year amenable with the democratic governor to undoing the law. >> you don't mean a recall. >> no, no. like in wisconsin, you know, a lot of people in the wake of that say how did scott walker win by so much? voters may not have liked what he did but they didn't like the idea of, you know, he's in the middle of the term. let him finish we elected him to. that
and how do the pro-union republicans pursue overturn this? and republicans acute in how they put together and appropriations bill and no automatic way to get a referendum to put it on the ballot. what they can do, however, is get 8%, signatures equivalent to 8% of the turnout in the 2010 election, the last gubernatorial election. if they collect 8% of the public like that they can put it on the ballot in 2014 so there would be that. the other issue is this. rick snyder is up for re-election in...
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via union deals. david: why do you think the bills are necessary? >> for me we looked at the state of michigan and only state in the nation that lost population in the last census. i went off and did analysis and charted looking where everybody is going? when you look at the census data by almost three to one margin they're going to right to work states. and so that was a pretty compelling argument. when indiana passed their right to work law we looked whether or not there was direct causality right to work and creation of jobs and indiana was in the first six months of passing right to work legislation have 74 new or expansion existing projects in the state, leading to thousands of jobs and millions of dollars in investment. david: well, in fact that's true for the whole country. unemployment is always lower in those states that have right to work laws. we've done national surveys and it's true by about a full percentage point, is it not? >> right. well the top seven in regards to unemployment rates
via union deals. david: why do you think the bills are necessary? >> for me we looked at the state of michigan and only state in the nation that lost population in the last census. i went off and did analysis and charted looking where everybody is going? when you look at the census data by almost three to one margin they're going to right to work states. and so that was a pretty compelling argument. when indiana passed their right to work law we looked whether or not there was direct...
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who work for the state government, or if they only killed the unions in the private sector. but the reason that governor snyder has been able to do all of this in such a hurry, the reason he was able to make the 180 he pulled on stripping union rights, for example, the reason he is able to purchase saul the anti-abortion and the anti-sharia law legislation is because he can, right? michigan republicans are moving full steam ahead with whatever they want. they've got control of both houses of the legislature. they've got the governorship. even after they come back next year for the next session, even after this election, which was not very kind to republicans, including those in michigan, they're still going to have control of both houses of the legislature. they're still going to have the governorship. they are steaming right ahead. republicans can do whatever they want in michigan, now and for the foreseeable future, because obviously, as you know, michigan is a red state. a red state, michigan. that's why republicans get to say what happens there. see? red state. see how r
who work for the state government, or if they only killed the unions in the private sector. but the reason that governor snyder has been able to do all of this in such a hurry, the reason he was able to make the 180 he pulled on stripping union rights, for example, the reason he is able to purchase saul the anti-abortion and the anti-sharia law legislation is because he can, right? michigan republicans are moving full steam ahead with whatever they want. they've got control of both houses of...
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you would not know it watching the boisterous union protests, but unions are left intact by this new law. as is, the right to collective bargaining. the big victory for worker rights today, the elimination of the power of both public and private unions to demand and a worse dues from workers and the end of union power to force workers to pay what have been mandatory dues. michigan becomes the 24th state to enact right to work laws after legislation passed the state house of representatives and was sent on to governor rick snyder for his signature. protesters of this new law number some 10,000 at today's demonstrations. most league made up of uaw union of the workers, machinists, teachers, sometimes angry crowds that seem to be taking cues from their democratic leaders. one group described by those on the ground as a mob chanting and go home while tearing down a conservative activist group tent. a member of that mob scene right here. this as protesters are heard in the background threatening the police with violence. here he is trying to plead with pro union protesters to be less phys
you would not know it watching the boisterous union protests, but unions are left intact by this new law. as is, the right to collective bargaining. the big victory for worker rights today, the elimination of the power of both public and private unions to demand and a worse dues from workers and the end of union power to force workers to pay what have been mandatory dues. michigan becomes the 24th state to enact right to work laws after legislation passed the state house of representatives and...
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and what this law changes is forced union membership, i repeat, forced union membership. so why is the president, and why are the unions so upset? in this case, it is about the money. specifically union dues, less money, mea less political power, this is the offset to the right to work, the right to power, and the unions think that is their right. other states like idaho and oklahoma pass right-to-work laws their union dues paying membership, those unions, dues pay membership fell by 15%. down 15%. if that happens in michigan, the heritage foundation has come up with estimate to how much the unions in michigan would lose. that number is over $46 million a year in dues. michigan, just one state. nationwide, we're not talking about public employee unions yet. let's do so, nationwide government employee unions collect, are you ready for this number? that is taxpayer money, going in the form of wes to the government class, if you will, public employees receiving and paying $14 billion in dues alone. that is what is at stake here. this is not just about money, it is not just a
and what this law changes is forced union membership, i repeat, forced union membership. so why is the president, and why are the unions so upset? in this case, it is about the money. specifically union dues, less money, mea less political power, this is the offset to the right to work, the right to power, and the unions think that is their right. other states like idaho and oklahoma pass right-to-work laws their union dues paying membership, those unions, dues pay membership fell by 15%. down...
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but the folks on the outside of unions. so we're going to fight this to the very end. and we're going to not let governor snyder get any rest until we return the working people back their rights that they had before governor snyder signed this. >> the gop's war on workers, we hear the language very similar to alec when we see michigan's proposed right to work billing mirror the word for word the detroit free press says. we know there's koch brother moneys. do you expect people around the country now to rally in michigan to possibly deal with a recall? or whatever options are available that congressman peters referred to? >> i think so. i think we've got to hold these guys accountable. this guy won't answer my phone call. he'll ignore 13,000 people at the capitol this morning. but you know whose call he will answer? the koch brothers. and that's wrong. maybe we lost this today, but this fight is not over. >> congressman peters -- congressman peters, explain to the people watching around the country what happened. a lot of pe
but the folks on the outside of unions. so we're going to fight this to the very end. and we're going to not let governor snyder get any rest until we return the working people back their rights that they had before governor snyder signed this. >> the gop's war on workers, we hear the language very similar to alec when we see michigan's proposed right to work billing mirror the word for word the detroit free press says. we know there's koch brother moneys. do you expect people around the...
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so is this the end for unions? joining me now is the the director of labor policy at mack kin gnaw center, who has been at the protests site all day. we have mark brenner, director of labor notes. vinnie, what do you make of what went on today? >> melissa, thanks for having me on. it is absolutely historic. you're talking about the state with the 52-week highest perntage of union members in the country. the birthplace ofhe uaw. for what has been long considered a union strong hold, giving workers the freedom to choose. freedo to choose whether or not to pay a union and still keep their jobs. this will have national ramification. this is very historic day both for michigan at country. melissa: mark, is there aniable positive way to spin this for the union side? >> of course not. this is union-busting move by lame duck legislature. this i puppet marching to the beat of puppet tease, dick devs of amway who want to hurt unions. melissa: did they succeed? is there a way to battle back. >> of course we have ability to or
so is this the end for unions? joining me now is the the director of labor policy at mack kin gnaw center, who has been at the protests site all day. we have mark brenner, director of labor notes. vinnie, what do you make of what went on today? >> melissa, thanks for having me on. it is absolutely historic. you're talking about the state with the 52-week highest perntage of union members in the country. the birthplace ofhe uaw. for what has been long considered a union strong hold, giving...
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dues to the union. the law will be a huge blow to unions because it will severely cut their funding. the legislation could be signed into law this week. >>> at the stroke of midnight, dozens of same-sex couples started getting married. maine and maryland also passed laws legalizing same-sex marriage last month. >>> bail was set at $500,000 for dallas cowboys nose tackle josh brent, he's been charged with intoxication manslaughter. jerry brown was killed when the car flipped. brown was later pronounced dead. >>> boxer manny pacquiao lost a nontitle bout to juan marquez last night in las vegas, he was knocked down in his sixth round. >>> three women in stockton california were identified on their restaurant bill as fat girls. that manager apologized blaming it on a new employee. >>> and if you think using iphones on -- no evidence such gadgets interfere with airline communications. >>> a search is under way now for a popular mexican american singer jenni rivera, the mexican authorities think the plane tha
dues to the union. the law will be a huge blow to unions because it will severely cut their funding. the legislation could be signed into law this week. >>> at the stroke of midnight, dozens of same-sex couples started getting married. maine and maryland also passed laws legalizing same-sex marriage last month. >>> bail was set at $500,000 for dallas cowboys nose tackle josh brent, he's been charged with intoxication manslaughter. jerry brown was killed when the car flipped....
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under a right to work law, employees of a union shop don't have to pay union dues. the employees get the benefit of the union, the higher wages and better health care, all of that, but they do not have to pay for it. why pay money if you can have something for free? for unions, the results of this are close to catastrophic which is why republicans and big business love right to work laws. they are a way of destroying unions. the same heritage foundation that will be jim demint's new home says union membership fell by 15% in states that passed right to work. union organizing fell by half, passing a right to work law stops unions and it stops organizing. on the labor left, the economic policy institute reports that wages fall by more than 3% after you institute right to work. and pensions take a hit, too. that's why unions call right to work the right to work for less. with governor snyder saying he wanted no part of a fight over right to work just a few months ago, the move to pass a bill in michigan was, well, kind of surprising. it appears to have started this year
under a right to work law, employees of a union shop don't have to pay union dues. the employees get the benefit of the union, the higher wages and better health care, all of that, but they do not have to pay for it. why pay money if you can have something for free? for unions, the results of this are close to catastrophic which is why republicans and big business love right to work laws. they are a way of destroying unions. the same heritage foundation that will be jim demint's new home says...
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bills making it illegal for public and private unions to compel workers to pay union dues a. short time ago, the michigan legislature okayed the bills despite protests of more than 10,000 workers who came out in the freezing cold to show their opposition. and past hour, republican governor rick snyder pledged to sign both in to law as early as tomorrow making michigan the nation's 24th right to work state. >> i didn't do this for the politics. this is a policy issue that came about because the proposal 2 went down and we had a large-scale discussion going on and best to say it's on the table. let's make decisions, move forward. this is to move michigan forward. about more and better jobs and worker choice. >> and one top union official has vowed to wage war against lawmakers that support the measure saying, quote, we are going to take you out. nbc's ron mott has the latest of lansing. >> reporter: good afternoon, tamron. protest is the word of the day. they're voicing opposition to this legislation that would make michigan the 24th right to work state in the country. now, the
bills making it illegal for public and private unions to compel workers to pay union dues a. short time ago, the michigan legislature okayed the bills despite protests of more than 10,000 workers who came out in the freezing cold to show their opposition. and past hour, republican governor rick snyder pledged to sign both in to law as early as tomorrow making michigan the nation's 24th right to work state. >> i didn't do this for the politics. this is a policy issue that came about...
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why are unions so important to you? what is the value proposition? >> well, the value proposition is this. when you go into bargaining or negotiating a contract or anything like that, there is always conversation. when michigan is in hard times like it has been and the governor knows this, we do compromise on some things and we do work with them and we do meet with them at the table and try to come up with something that works for both sides. that weakens us the more -- the more our revenue in the unions are gone and missing, the more that's going to prevent us from being able to negotiate with any kind of leverage whatsoever. they know this and that's what they're counting on. they're counting on using the words like freedom and other things to get people on board with this, and after yesterday's demonstration, i think the clear message was that people do not like this, it's divisive, they know this, it's to weaken the unions, weaken the leverage the unions have to create a safe work environment, and it's all a lot of millions of dollars they're bri
why are unions so important to you? what is the value proposition? >> well, the value proposition is this. when you go into bargaining or negotiating a contract or anything like that, there is always conversation. when michigan is in hard times like it has been and the governor knows this, we do compromise on some things and we do work with them and we do meet with them at the table and try to come up with something that works for both sides. that weakens us the more -- the more our...
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we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. >>> authorities today identified 22-year-old jacob tyler roberts as the man who walked into an oregon shopping mall packed with holiday shoppers and children in line to see santa and opened fire with an ar-15 semiautomatic rifle. police say roberts who wore a hockey mask during the rampage killed two shoppers, injured a third before taking his own life. police also say they have no motive for the crime and that the high powered weapon had been stolen. and so now comes the predictable cycle. a horrendous crime with firearm stronger than any hunter would need. an honest attempt at a gun control conver
we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. >>> authorities today...
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we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] while you're getting ready for the holidays, we're getting ready for you. tis the season. for food, for family, and now, something extra -- for you. [ traffic passing ] ]amily, ♪ [ music box: lullaby ] [ man on tv, indistinct ] ♪ [ lullaby continues ] [ baby coos ] [ man announcing ] millions are still exposed to the dangers... of secondhand smoke... and some of them can't do anything about it. ♪ [ continues ] [ gasping ] is a thrilling, dual-flavored ride to mouth fun-town. but it's not like everyone is going to break into a karaoke jam session. ♪ this will litera
we are gathered here today to celebrate the union of tim and laura. it's amazing how appreciative people are when you tell them they could save a lot of money on their car insurance by switching to geico...they may even make you their best man. may i have the rings please? ah, helzberg diamonds. nice choice, mate. ...and now in the presence of these guests we join this loving couple. oh dear... geico. 15 minutes could save you 15% or more on car insurance. ♪ ♪ [ male announcer ] while...
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he actually talked about good union jobs. certainly, chatting with a lot of having the united autoworkers as a backdrop is sending a message he's on their side if he didn't sy that in the remarks but another explosive labor battle in the midwest. in michigan is the newest battleground there. >> mark, thank you very much. >>> more now on the heavy duty negotiating taking place over the fiscal cliff. that's part of the reason that the president is in michigan bringing his message to the people and yesterday the president and house speaker john boehner brought their message to one another. the first one on one in more than three weeks. will there be a deal to include what's called serious entitlement reform and cuts? joining me now congresswoman bass of california. it's a pleasure to have you on again. >> thanks, thanks for having me on, tamron. >> absolutely. the president is in michigan. i want to read what senator dick durbin said on entitlements and reform. let me play it. >> i do believe there should be means testing and th
he actually talked about good union jobs. certainly, chatting with a lot of having the united autoworkers as a backdrop is sending a message he's on their side if he didn't sy that in the remarks but another explosive labor battle in the midwest. in michigan is the newest battleground there. >> mark, thank you very much. >>> more now on the heavy duty negotiating taking place over the fiscal cliff. that's part of the reason that the president is in michigan bringing his message...
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i still belong to one and i like the union." but this discredits the entire union movement. it is criminal activity, it is stupid, it is destructive to the reputation of the union, destructive to workers. ronald reagan was a union leader, a proud one. the screen actors' guild. i don't think he would con cone this and neither should the democratic party today. >> no one is condoning the violence but no one is saying these nonrepresentative extreme people represent the entire labor people. i think these are be a bore rags. >> what did we see in wisconsin. >> and we should condemn it on the left and the right. we are consistent on that. >> lanny, they inveighed the legislator of wisconsin shouting and hollering when from the balconies. if conservatives did that in the u.s. capitol, they would go to jail. >> i think they would both be wrong and i agree with you it hurts the labor union. as a pro labor democrat that's correct kind ever activity doesn't persuade undecided people. it turns off those people. so are they are hurting the labor movement by that kind of action. >> thank
i still belong to one and i like the union." but this discredits the entire union movement. it is criminal activity, it is stupid, it is destructive to the reputation of the union, destructive to workers. ronald reagan was a union leader, a proud one. the screen actors' guild. i don't think he would con cone this and neither should the democratic party today. >> no one is condoning the violence but no one is saying these nonrepresentative extreme people represent the entire labor...
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are you serious this is not anti-union? >> i don't view it as pro or anti-union. unions just need to be responsive to people to step up and deliver value. and workers have that choice. and workers should have that choice. they shouldn't be compelled to join something they don't see value in. >> virg bernero, isn't it interesting how government in michigan is so concerned about the relationship between union and its workers? >> yeah, it's interesting this freedom, freedom and this choice. you know, if the governor and others who are for this believe really in this kind of freedom and choice in a democracy, then why don't they make taxes voluntary? because the reality is that that's what union dues are. the majority has voted for a union, and the majority rules in a democracy. just like the majority voted for rick snyder. i might not agree with his policies as governor, but i don't have a choice to hold back on my taxes. i might not agree with the direction the president is taking, but i got to pay my federal taxes or the irs will come after me. so the idea that you
are you serious this is not anti-union? >> i don't view it as pro or anti-union. unions just need to be responsive to people to step up and deliver value. and workers have that choice. and workers should have that choice. they shouldn't be compelled to join something they don't see value in. >> virg bernero, isn't it interesting how government in michigan is so concerned about the relationship between union and its workers? >> yeah, it's interesting this freedom, freedom and...
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workplace from joining or paying dues to that union. meanwhile, pro-union protesters are swarming the michigan capital building in lansing in scenes reminiscent of the battles over union rights in wisconsin and in ohio last year. david corn, we -- the president has sort of -- was in michigan yesterday, and bundled this into a bigger message about the middle class, working americans. is this a good time for republicans to be on the side -- well, against workers rights in the context of this broader conversation we're having? >> you know, we shall see here because they clearly have the votes and snyder says he is going to do this. you see the response. you saw the response in wisconsin. their walker survived the fight. i assume this will be as big, if not bigger, and the uaw, of course, the unions are even stronger in michigan than they are in wisconsin, so, you know, this will be a six-month, year-long process. i don't know what the recall was in michigan compared to wisconsin, but i expect this is the beginning of a long fight, and we'l
workplace from joining or paying dues to that union. meanwhile, pro-union protesters are swarming the michigan capital building in lansing in scenes reminiscent of the battles over union rights in wisconsin and in ohio last year. david corn, we -- the president has sort of -- was in michigan yesterday, and bundled this into a bigger message about the middle class, working americans. is this a good time for republicans to be on the side -- well, against workers rights in the context of this...
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the michigan polls show this is a winner for people who with unions. the governors ratings are very mediocre. majority say that after they hear both sides, they are against right to work and 80% say this is not -- this shouldn't be a priority at all. actually, more say they're going to hold it against legislators for voting for it than reward them for it. >> we know what we will be talking about in 2014 in the midwest. we have that clear. we know what this will be about. >> we already had a debate about this early in the year. scott walker -- >> he sort of -- >> it's hard to say the union people will have to be worried right now. >> it does feel as if when this moves, it moves. the question is, can they calibrate on another policy. we asked in the last 100 years how many presidents were elected after serving in the house, but not in the senate. there's just one. president george h.w. bush was a congressman for texas, unsuccessful candidate for the united states senate. then of course he was u.n. ambassador, cia director and vice president before he was
the michigan polls show this is a winner for people who with unions. the governors ratings are very mediocre. majority say that after they hear both sides, they are against right to work and 80% say this is not -- this shouldn't be a priority at all. actually, more say they're going to hold it against legislators for voting for it than reward them for it. >> we know what we will be talking about in 2014 in the midwest. we have that clear. we know what this will be about. >> we...
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on the other side, fighting to defend union rights, you'll find, naturally, unions, which of course will be essentially gotten rid of with this legislation that the republicans and their conservative donors are pushing through. think about that. it's kind of a striking thing here. the raw political side of this. "the nation" magazine looked into who the supporters were on both sides of this issue, and they found that the only competition on the pro union rights side is the unions themselves. who of course this fight is designed to quash, to make go away. it's a handy way of getting your way, right? existentially erasing your opposition. it's the politics of process as much or more than it is the politics of substance. so, you know, you keep the other side's voters from voting somehow. you screw up the district map, so no matter how many more votes are cast for team a over team b. it's team b that always wins a majority of the seats anyway. you use state law to eliminate the existence of institutions that tend to support the other party come election time. it's not about persuading voters
on the other side, fighting to defend union rights, you'll find, naturally, unions, which of course will be essentially gotten rid of with this legislation that the republicans and their conservative donors are pushing through. think about that. it's kind of a striking thing here. the raw political side of this. "the nation" magazine looked into who the supporters were on both sides of this issue, and they found that the only competition on the pro union rights side is the unions...
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and that's how unions -- that's how unions survive. and thrive. so, yeah. this is going to be something that we're going to be talking about tomorrow and in the months and probably years to come. i can't remember who said it to you earlier. also, in the program today that, you know, michigan could be the model for the country. >> something that the uaw and its supporters do not want to take place. jonathan, of course we don't know whether tomorrow's the day when we have a resolution of the fiscal cliff. kent conrad said earlier it's too soon and involve -- permit too much time for the advocates to take time at it. thank you very much. we'll talk to you tomorrow i hope. that does it for this edition. tomorrow we have a big show. congresswoman rogers, chair of the house republican conference, former obama foreign policy adviser, former pentagon advis r adviser, "the washington post" eugene robinson and oliver stone. tamron hall is right here. >> hey there, andrea. great to be in d.c. an it is your town. we'll talk about when's happening. another town, michiga
and that's how unions -- that's how unions survive. and thrive. so, yeah. this is going to be something that we're going to be talking about tomorrow and in the months and probably years to come. i can't remember who said it to you earlier. also, in the program today that, you know, michigan could be the model for the country. >> something that the uaw and its supporters do not want to take place. jonathan, of course we don't know whether tomorrow's the day when we have a resolution of...
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part, politically speaking from union dues. look, here's the issue. the state senate and the stais statehouse have both passed this. they have to pass the other ones, and then rick snyder, we expect, to sign it. one thing that's interesting, ohio, something similar happened, and you saw a ballot initiative that actually repealed the right to work legislation. that's not likely to happen here because in the state constitution you can't repeal a spending bill, ask there was an appropriation, a spending measure, attached to this legislation. so it's going to be harder to overturn it. that doesn't mean people won't protest. it dent mean it won't become a national story, as it's already becoming, but getting it repealed or at least even the process of repeeling could be a lot more difficult. >> now, the president today in michigan is still doing the public campaigning, and this is beginning to pay off. you see real negotiations taking place. what do we know happened at the white house between the president and speaker boehner this w
part, politically speaking from union dues. look, here's the issue. the state senate and the stais statehouse have both passed this. they have to pass the other ones, and then rick snyder, we expect, to sign it. one thing that's interesting, ohio, something similar happened, and you saw a ballot initiative that actually repealed the right to work legislation. that's not likely to happen here because in the state constitution you can't repeal a spending bill, ask there was an appropriation, a...